By Lisa Barr
I was working on a blog when an old friend came up to me: “Hey, how are you? How are the girls? I see you’ve been busy!”
She looked great. I leaned forward, away from my laptop. “I’m so crazed. Trying to keep it all together. But good,” I said. “And how are YOU? How are the kids? How is Dan?” (Dan is the first guy she’d been with since her divorce that she really fell for … he was good to her, nice, cute, deeply caring, great in bed, successful, and most importantly, she felt great about herself with him. BUT …
Yeah, BUT.
Dan had a huge Red Flag attached to him … He was divorced but had not yet EX-tricated from his EX. He, like many other men and women Out There, are divorced but still “married”. They simply don’t know how to let go.
Her head lowered. “I really like Dan. A lot. But he is TOO attached to his ex-wife and it has become unbearable …”
I remembered the Big One …when Dan and his EX were going to visit their child at camp and had decided to get ONE hotel room. Obviously, that didn’t fly with my friend … and Dan quickly rectified the situation.
She continued. “The problem is that there are no boundaries between them in their divorce. And after so months together, I really don’t know what to do.” Her eyes were glassy. I could tell that she really cared about this guy. “I had to end it just a few days ago. The last straw was when I asked him to join me and my family on Rosh Hashanah. And he said that he couldn’t come because ‘their’ tradition was to be with HER and her family. I know he sees it as being with his kids — but it’s so confusing. His inability to separate from his EX is killing me, and it’s certainly killed us.”
Dan had always been the one who did all the TO-DO at home — taking care of the kids, driving them wherever, buying them clothes, grocery shopping. His EX worked and traveled. But even after the divorce, with their separate households, Dan …
“STILL GROCERY SHOPS FOR HER HOUSE — what is up with that?!” my friend exclaimed. “It’s ridiculous. I know it’s not a sexual thing between them. She has a boyfriend. But Dan has not stopped doing any of the things he did during the marriage. Any whim the EX has — she uses the kids — and he comes running…”
I truly get that Dan wants to be there for his kids — it’s admirable,” my friend added. “But in divorce — a New Normal has to be set — or he really shouldn’t be dating. It hurts me constantly. It’s like I’m dating BOTH of them.
There’s actually a name for it: Co-Dependency.
It can be very confusing for kids of divorce if their parents are separated on paper BUT NOT separated in their actions. It’s “as if everything is the same … but it’s not.”
In fact, my friend told me that Dan’s teenage daughter has not even told her friends that her parents are divorced — and it has been almost a year. The lines are clearly blurred for everyone involved.
That friend left … and I swear this is true … another woman saw me writing and said: “Okay, so what’s Monday’s blog?”
I told her. She shook her head. “Oh, I’ve got a story for you. How ’bout the fact that the guy I’m dating has been divorced for eight years, and he tells his EX EVERYTHING — I’m talking details. A few nights ago, he told her where we went to a concert, where we had dinner, and that I had slept over … and she knows people I know. The next day a friend called: ‘I heard you had a hot night last night …’ I laughed and asked her how she knew that. And, she names the EX. I was mortified. It’s like he reports to her. He and his EX sit on the phone, talking and comparing details.
“I get it, if it’s about the kids,” she says. “I’m divorced with kids. But sharing intimate details about who they are dating and what they do on those dates — c’mon. This is all too-close-for-comfort — weird — and I’m really questioning things.”
Divorce is about letting go. The catch is when kids are involved — especially young ones — contact with the EX is usually in some shape or form on a daily basis. But when there is a New Person (man or woman) in your life and that relationship is blossoming — or you are in a new marriage — letting go of the “intimate” (read: not sexual) connection with the “first” spouse is not only necessary for your new relationship, but also a MUST for your new relationship to really work. No new person in your life wants a threesome with the EX.
In a twisted ‘When Harry Met Sally’ philosophy — you cannot sustain best budship with your EX if you are deeply committed to another woman or man.
There are exceptions: I do have one friend who is literally best friends with her husband’s new wife. They hang together, they shop together, and she really cares about her. That is NOT the New Normal, or the Norm. But it does work for them, only because all players are on board.
For most couples living Life-In-Divorce, true separation is about establishing BOUNDARIES as an essential component for Second-Time-Around success.
Here are some makeshift Divorce Rules … (and feel free to add more in the Comments section, or feel free to totally disagree…)
1. Don’t call your EX late-night — unless it is an emergency about your children — that trumps all. But a call simply to remind him/her to do X, Y, or Z can wait until morning. Nothing is more of a bed-time buzz killer with a new spouse/significant other as when the EX calls for something that is really just a detail and not life-changing. It feels invasive.
2. Don’t share intimate dating details with your EX about your relationship/new spouse. It’s none of their business — and it ALWAYS gets back to the other person. However, if New Person is involved in something that affects the welfare of your child/children directly — i.e. new spouse is mean to your child — then discussing the impact of his/her actions is important.
3. Be honest with the new person in your life (if you’re dating) about the true amount of time that you spend with your EX. It allows that person the CHOICE to be with you or not. Especially someone who is recovering from their own divorce — it is not fair if you keep hidden the fact that Sunday nights is Family Night (meaning You, your EX and the kids).
4. Make sure your kids really know that Mommy and Daddy are NOT getting back together, but they are friends, and what they DO share is their love for their children. Clarity is key. Inside, kids truly want both of their parents to be happy, friendly and to get along. Establish boundaries early on between you and your EX, so they can get used to it. If you have no boundaries, they will never have closure nor acceptance, and constantly be fantasizing that you and your EX will reunite. In addition, the kids will never give New Person a chance.
5. The truly difficult piece between Exes is if the playing field is NOT level. If one spouse is in a serious relationship and the other one is alone or dating (unsuccessfully). The balance is off — and it makes boundaries and true separation difficult, especially if you are say, attending some event related to your kids and you are bringing New Boyfriend/New Hubby or New Girlfriend/New Wife along. It’s complicated but if you want your new relationship to work — you MUST put the New Person’s needs in front of your EX’s.
You can say to your EX: “Hey, I’m bringing “Steve” to Adam’s baseball game. I’m truly sorry if it makes you uncomfortable but he is a good guy and an important part of my life. I do hope you can understand and accept it. And when someone special comes into your life, I, too, will learn to accept it.” In that one conversation you accomplished a lot: You gave your EX the heads-up so he or she can be prepared.
You established that someone is important to YOU, and you have given HIM the special status he probably deserves (if you are at the point of bringing him to your son’s game). EX-wife/EX-husband needs to remember that, yes, the kids are first, but the EX no longer has that same status — that hold — over you.
6. Most importantly, YOU should get to know the EX, and try to build a relationship — if you are going to be in each other’s life for the long haul, because it affects EVERYONE involved. Go out of your way to be friendly, even if at first it is not reciprocated. You don’t have to be best friends — but find small ways to connect. You like kick-boxing/I like kick-boxing. You like to read/Loved this book … Sometimes this “fragile” relationship takes a while to marinade, but you WILL get there.
Boundaries. Communication. Clarity. — are the Divorce “Traveling Trio”. Whatever player you may be in the scenario (the Hubby/the Ex/the New Wife/the New Hubby/Boyfriend/Girlfriend)… keep these three items close by and The New Normal will be a good thing, a better recipe for happiness, for ALL of you.
< back
I LOVED this blog! I think your friend (the first girl) did the right thing breaking up with Dan. He is clearly not ready to commit to anyone else. He’s having the benefit of still being married AND dating. So is the wife. Please tell your friend that she is so much better off, and that she will surely meet a man who is emotionally available. Dan is not. I’ll never forget this. I was on a plane about 5 years ago, and the guy sitting next to me said to me, “When you meet the right guy, it will be easy.” That has always stuck with me. Dating Dan isn’t “easy.”
@Jackie … thanks so much for always giving your opinion — so valued at GW … I just want to add that even when you DO meet the right guy — nothing is Easy … In fact I think the two words that should be abolished are “easy” and “perfect” — they simply don’t exist. Every relationship has its ups and downs — the survival is all in the navigation. “Dan” on paper could make his situation easier for sure … it is too complicated from so many angles. However, even if Dan did not have those complications and he was the Poster Boy for Divorce and Boundaries … given all the players, it still would not be an easy gig. Life-in-Divorce is always work — beautiful moments for sure — but in order for it to look “easy” — lots of leg work, baby… At this age, anyone you meet will have a history — so be prepared, work HARD at making it a good thing for all. It’s a lot of “not-easy’ — but lots of rewards … xoxo Lisa
Your message
This is so very true, I teach boundaries all day to families. The EX factor not only goes for EX spouses but All people who depart in relationships. These people need to move on, move forward and get their own lives. I realize it’s hard to do, however, if they can get past their known neediness, their kids benefit. The kids take the lead of their parents, their role models. Children of any age need to feel safe and doing the same old same old is not healthy, they idealize their parents getting back together.
The idealization of the EX in whatever capacity, needs to have self respect. If they only knew how pathetic they look to their own families, I’m pretty sure moving on, without checking in every second, would be a great benefit fir themselves. I believe every human being needs boundaries, limits and agreements to live a graceful authentic life. Now that’s attractive!
I haven’t had the time lately to read let alone sit. So, I really enjoyed catching up on my GIRLilla girlfriends talent of sharing her spot on opinions to all those who need advice. I can totally relate to this story since I am the friend with the Not Norm relationship with her Ex’s new wife. I can fully admit that we are definitely Not the Norm. Finding a new partner to gel with your kids is a challenge, but hoping your ex finds a partner that gels with your kids is terrifying. We kept a close relationship while we both were dating our current spouses to keep our boundaries solid yet introduce our partners slowly into the mix so they felt comfortable and not threatened. Yes we vacation together to pick up our children from camp, yes the second set of eyes and ears are better than one set, yes we rely on each other in good times and bad, and yes we are all great friends together because we have our children’s best interest at heart. Who knows, you might find your new best friend from your ex best friend! Cutting the cord is hard no matter if its your ex, your college aged kids, your son’s new wife, etc. There is always room for one more and around town that is Not the Norm. In that case, I am glad to be abnormal:)
What a great website, so needed. My boyfriend has a 19 and a half year old daughter who lives with the ex wife, divorce almost final. I am his girlfriend and we live together. I was upset the other day when his daughter asked her dad to pick and drop of a bed at his ex wife’s apartment. I suggested it made me uncomfortable and that is husband behavior. He promised not to do it but he did I am hurt by this..am I being unreasonable as his ex wife gets lots of money from him and his daughter wirks full time I am certain they could have asked someone else to do it please tell me if I am unreasonable ..ty so much;)
I’m 54 no children. I’ve been married for 10 years my husband has two girls 21 and 23. While they were still under the age of 18 my husband moved his ex into their house that they had previously before they were divorced. 10 years later she is still living in that house, he pays the mortgage she does not pay any rent. We almost divorced over this. He is till paying for their college and he wants his ex to stay in the house. I think it’s time for me to move on. I am not involved with any decisions with his girls and he keeps us separate. I am trying to do the right thing by his daughters. I really feel like I need to move on. He works all the time to make sure he can pay his HALF HERE and make sure his daughters have everything they need there. Very sad. Pray lots. I honestly thought things would get better as his daughters aged.
My husband and I do nothing together anymore. It’s worse not better also no communication. Confused. I do love him confused.
Wow, this article was exactly what I was looking for. I’ve been dating a man for almost 2 yrs who’s been divorced for 4 years and shares 3 adolescent children with his ex wife. When we first started dating I realized he was quite slow to move the relationship forward. I always had to say that it seemed like he still wanted to be casual but then he would say, no I want to be with you and I’ll come forward. He would follow through but then something else would always happen or make me feel off. I found out almost a year in that he had been vacationing with his ex and the kids as recently as the summer we met. That really threw me off and we had many arguments about how I thought that was really inappropriate and a huge red flag that bringing me in further was going to be very difficult with the kids due to the vacationing, etc.
Now here we are at Xmas and I always give him Xmas day to go to his ex’s house and open gifts with the kids. He stays for dinner etc that day. This year he will do the same, in addition he told me he wanted to go to xmas eve mass with his ex, her parents, and the kids. I was floored. I can’t understand why he would “want” to do this and play like they are still one happy family. Then a day later I found out that he went to an Xmas movie with her and the kids. And I just couldn’t take it. I told him I was leaving him. Very painful. He swears up and down he doesn’t; want her back, which I don’t think he does. But he doesn’t put me first. I feel like 5th here and like a side chick and that the ex and kids are his primary focus. So painful, now I am sitting here on Xmas eve by myself because I broke up. Awful times.